Law on Film is created and produced by Jonathan Hafetz. Jonathan is a professor at Seton Hall Law School. He has written many books and articles about the law. He has litigated important cases to protect civil liberties and human rights while working at the ACLU and other organizations. Jonathan is a huge film buff and has been watching, studying, and talking about movies for as long as he can remember.
For more information about Jonathan, here's a link to his bio: https://law.shu.edu/profiles/hafetzjo.html
You can contact him at jonathanhafetz@gmail.com
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Episode 31: Chinatown (1974) (Guest: John Walton)
Jonathan Hafetz
Chinatown (1974) is a neo-noir crime thriller, directed by Roman Polanski from a screenplay by Robert Towne. Based loosely on the Owens Valley water wars in Los Angeles from the early twentieth century, the film follows private investigator J.J. (“Jake”) Gittes (Jack Nicholson) as he pursues a series of leads that take him into the dark underbelly of power and corruption in 1930s Los Angeles. A woman claiming to be "Evelyn Mulwray” initially hires Gittes to follow her husband Hollis, whom she suspects of infidelity. Gittes discovers that Noah Cross (John Huston), the father of the real Evelyn Mulwray (Faye Dunaway), had Hollis, his former business partner and head of the Los Angeles Department of Water and Power, killed. Hollis had learned of Cross’s plan to force famers in the Northwest valley to sell their land by cutting off their irrigating water and purchasing it through dummy syndicates on the cheap with the aim of developing the land into valuable Los Angeles real estate. Gittes also learns that the young woman he falsely suspected Hollis of having an affair with is Evelyn’s sister and daughter—the product of Evelyn’s rape by Cross when she was fifteen. While Gittes ultimately unravels the mystery, he is unable to stop the powerful Cross from achieving his goals or prevent the tragic fate that awaits Evelyn.
Guest: John Walton
John Walton is an author, sociologist and sometime historian who lives and works in Carmel Valley, California. John received a Ph.D. (UC Santa Barbara) and taught for many years (UC Davis) as Distinguished Professor and is now Emeritus. John has studied and written about the water wars mounted by the communities of California’s Eastern Sierra in response to construction of the Los Angeles aqueduct. Begun in the 1980s, his books recounting these events have won numerous prizes and his work with Owens Valley historical and environmental groups continues to this day. His work on the Owens Valley water wars also includes a study of the film “Chinatown” which provides a fictionalized account of these events which affected popular perceptions of them. John has developed these ideas in his book “The Legendary Detective: The Private Eye in Fact and Fiction,” which describes how private detectives and agencies became a major industry devoted largely to labor espionage while, through the efforts of the culture industries (via mystery stories, pulp fiction, radio and film) became an endearing legend.
Timestamps:
0:00 Introduction
3:37 Chinatown's historical and literary elements
6:28 How the film adapts historical events and figures
12:13 The private investigator in film and popular culture
18:09 Jake Gittes and the power structure
24:27 “Either you bring the water to LA, or you bring LA to the water”
28:17 The private eye and the police
32:56 The mystery and impenetrability of power
35:00 How Chinatown affects perceptions of the water wars
38:43 Public law affecting water allocation and management
40:05 The formalities of law and the power structure beneath it
44:15 “The Defects of Total Power”Further Reading:
Brownstein, Ronald, “The 1970s Movie that Explains 2020s America,” The Atlantic (June 20, 2024)
Hoffman, Abraham, Vision or Villainy: Origins of the Owens Valley-Los Angeles Water Controversy (1981)
Kahrl, William L., “The Politics of the California Water: Owens Valley and the Los Angeles Aqueduct, 1900 – 1927,” Hastings West-Northwest J. Envt’l L. & Policy, vol. 6, nos. 1 & 2 (2000)
Libecap, Gary D., “Chinatown: Owens Valley and Western Water Reallocation – Getting the Record Straight and What It Means for Water Markets,” 83 Texas L. Rev. 2055 (2005)
Walton, John, “Film Mystery as Urban History: The Case of Chinatown,” Cinema and the City (M. Shiel & T. Fitzmaurice, 2001)
Walton, John, The Legendary Detective: The Private Eye in Fact and Fiction (U. Chicago Press (2015)
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Episode 32: Bridge of Spies (2015) (Guests: Lenni Benson and Jeffrey Kahn)
Jonathan Hafetz
This episode looks at Bridge of Spies (2015), the Cold War legal and political thriller directed by Steven Spielberg (and written by Matt Charman, Ethan Coen, and Joel Coen). The film is based on the true story of American attorney James Donovan who is assigned to represent Soviet spy Rudolf Abel after Abel is arrested in New York and prosecuted for espionage. The story takes a turn when American pilot Francis Gary Powers is captured by the Russians after his plane is shot down over the Soviet Union while conducting a surveillance mission. Donovan is then tasked with negotiating a high-stakes prisoner exchange—Abel for Powers—that ultimately succeeds in a climactic scene on the Glienicke Bridge that connected Potsdam with Soviet-controlled East Berlin in 1962. The film is not only highly entertaining; it also provides a window into an important legal issues around national security, criminal, and immigration law that still resonate today. Joining me to explore these issues are Lenni Benson, Distinguished Chair in Immigration and Human Rights Law at New York Law School, who is both one of the nation’s foremost authorities immigration law and a prominent advocate in the field, and Jeffrey Kahn, University Distinguished Professor at SMU Dedman School of Law, a leading scholar on constitutional and counterterrorism law, an expert on Russian law, and the author of a must-read article on the Abel case, published in the Journal of National Security Law and Policy.
Guest: Lenni Benson
Lenni Benson has been teaching and writing in the field of immigration law since 1994. She is a professor at New York Law School and serves as the director of the NYLS Safe Passage Project Clinic. The Clinic partners with The Safe Passage Project, a nonprofit that recruits, trains and mentor pro bono attorneys to represent unaccompanied immigrant youth in removal proceedings and immigration applications. Professor Benson has won national awards for her pro bono leadership and excellence in immigration teaching. She has served as a member of several national task forces on the needs of migrant youth and has been a speaker for the federal government at national trainings. She also served as one of the founding steering committee members of the American Immigration Representation Project, formed in 2017, to expand pro bono representation of detained immigrants. Professor Benson is an emeritus trustee of the American Immigration Law Foundation (now the American Immigration Council), is a fellow of the American Bar Foundation, and served on the board of the Center for Human and Constitutional Rights. She is the author of numerous books and articles about immigration law.
Guest: Jeffrey Kahn
Jeffrey Kahn is University Distinguished Professor at SMU Dedman School of Law. He teaches and writes on American constitutional law, Russian law, human rights, and national security law. Professor Kahn’s latest research focuses on the right to travel and national security. His most recent book, Mrs. Shipley’s Ghost: The Right to Travel and Terrorist Watchlists (University of Michigan Press, 2013), critically examines the U.S. Government’s No Fly List. Professor Kahn is also co-author of the casebook National Secuirty Law and the Constitution (Aspen 2025). His articles have appeared in leading scholarly journals, including the UCLA Law Review, Michigan Law Review, and the peer-reviewed Journal of National Security Law and Policy. His recent research also focuses on the influence in Russia of the European Convention on Human Rights. He has submitted briefs to the European Court of Human Rights and the Russian Constitutional Court and worked with the Clooney Foundation for Justice in cases concerning human rights and fair trials in Russia.
Timestamps:
0:00 Introduction
2:15 Who were Rudolf Abel & James Donovan
5:56 The Cold War tensions and anxieties
8:54 Defending Abel in court
11:55 Selective use of immigration law
17:46 Abel’s arrest and the legal issues in the case
24:14 Abel’s disappearance and coercive interrogation
29:19 Past anti-communist hysteria
32:04 Cherry-picking from legal categories to avoid constitutional guarantee
40:57 A frightening time for noncitizens engaged in political activity
49:32 A foreshadowing of government abuses after 9/11
52:04 A questionable citation to Yick Wo v. Hopkins
59:02 The vast system of immigration detention
105:24 Behind the Iron Curtain
112:07 An ex parte conversation with the judge
116:25 The aftermath for Abel, Donovan, and Francis Gary Powers
120:29 The absence of women in important positionsFurther Reading:
Arthey, Vin, Like Father, Like Son: A Dynasty of Spies (2004)
“‘Bridge of Spies’: The True Story is Even Stranger Than Fiction,” ProPublica (Feb. 24, 2016)
Donovan, James B., Strangers on a Bridge: The Case of Colonel Abel and Francis Gary Powers (1964)
Epps, Garrett, “The Real Court Case Behind Bridge of Spies,” The Atlantic (Nov. 17. 2015)
Kahn, Jeffrey D., “The Case of Colonel Abel,” 5 J. Nat'l Sec. L. & Pol'y 263 (2011)
Sragow, Michael, “Deep Focus: ‘Bridge of Spies,’” Film Comment (Oct. 14, 2015
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Episode 33: A Separation (Iran) (2011) (Guest: Dr. Golbarg Rekabtalaei)
Jonathan Hafetz
A Separation (2011) is an Iranian drama written and directed by Asghar Farhadi. The film depicts the martial separation between a middle-class couple, Nadar (Peyman Moaadi) and his wife Simin (Leila Hatami). Simin wants the family to leave Iran to make a better life for their 10-year-old daughter Termeh, but Nadar does not want to leave his father who is suffering from Alzheimer’s disease. So Nadar refuses to go and also refuses to give permission for their daughter to leave. The film also depicts the conflict that results when Nadar allegedly pushes his father’s new, lower-income caregiver, Razieh (Sareh Bayat) down the stairs during an altercation, causing her to miscarry. A Separation centers around the two legal cases: the divorce proceedings between Nadar and Simin; and the criminal proceedings against Nadar. It provides a window not only into law in Iran but also into the complex forces of politics, class, and religion that shape modern Iranian society.
Guest: Dr. Golbarg Rekabtalaei
Golbarg Rekabtalaei is Associate Professor in the Department of History at Seton Hall University. Professor Rekabtalaei is a historian of modern Iran, and the Middle East at large. Her research focuses on the formation of a cosmopolitan modernity in twentieth century Iran through cultural exchanges and cinematic relations between Iran and the world. Professor Rekabtalaei examines the relationship between cinema and modernity, cosmopolitanism, urbanization, nationalism, and revolutions, with a particular focus on the role of cinema. In addition to numerous other scholarly works, she is the author of Iranian Cosmopolitanism: A Cinematic History (Cambridge University Press 2019).
Timestamps:
0:00 Introduction
2:21 An introduction to Iranian cinema
7:21 The cosmopolitanism of Iranian cinema
10:45 Government restrictions on cinema in Iran
14:17 The legal context for A Separation
16:18 Divorce law in Iran
20:09 The film’s opening scene
24:02 Abortion and criminal law in A Separation
31:13 Diyat (or “blood money” payments in Iran)
35:44 Criminal investigations and procedure in Iran
39:30 Imprisonment of debtors
41:44 A social drama told through legal process
46:25 The Green Movement in Iran
48:46 Other films about Iranian law and societyFurther Reading:
Becker, Ben, “‘A Separation’: Exploring Class, Marriage, and Morality through Iranian Culture,” Cinemablography
Burke, Jospeh, “Rediscovering Morality through Asghar Farhadi’s ‘A Separation,’” Senses of Cinema (Dec. 2011)
Haqshenas, Saleh, Badiei, Sediqeh & Narmani, Hamid, “Iran's Perspective: A Deconstructive Analysis of "A Separation Movie" Through Application of Binary Opposition,” International Researchers vol 2, no. 1 (Mar. 2013)
Kirshner, Jonathan, “Secrets, Lies, and Censorship: The Revelation of Asghar Farhadi’s Films,” Boston Review (Aug. 14, 2024)
Rekabtalaei, Golbarg, Iranian Cosmopolitanism: A Cinematic History (2019)
Romig, Rollo, “Blood Money: Crime and Punishment in ‘A Separation,’” New Yorker (Feb. 24, 2012)
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Episode 34: Black Hawk Down (2001) (Guest: Gregory Fox)
Jonathan Hafetz
Black Hawk Down (2001) describes the plight of the U.S. crew of a Black Hawk helicopter that is shot down during the Battle of Mogadishu during the civil war in Somalia in October 1993. The battle resulted in the death of 18 American soldiers and hundreds of Somalis; it also prompted the U.S. withdrawal from Somalia after images of dead U.S. soldiers being dragged through the streets of Mogadishu by enraged Somalis were broadcast on American television. Directed by Ridley Scott from a book by Mark Bowden, Black Hawk Down is a gritty action movie that captures the brutal nature of urban warfare. It also provides a window into a host of complex international legal and political issues as well as the opportunities–and challenges–for humanitarian intervention in the aftermath of the Cold War.
Guest: Gregory Fox
Greg Fox is Professor of law and Director of the Program for International Legal Studies at Wayne State University Law School. Professor Fox is a widely cited authority on international law and international organizations and a leader in a variety of academic and professional organizations. Professor Fox began his legal career in the litigation department of Hale & Dorr (now WilmerHale) in Boston, where he worked on one of the early cases brought under the Alien Tort Statute, Forti v. Suarez-Mason. He held fellowships at the Max Planck Institute for Comparative Public Law and Public International Law in Heidelberg, Germany, and at the Schell Center for Human Rights at Yale Law School before beginning his teaching career. From 1992-95 he was the co-director of the Center for International Studies at New York University Law School. Professor Fox is the recipient of a MacArthur Foundation/Social Science Research Council Fellowship in International Peace and Security. He is the author of numerous scholarly articles, including "The Right to Political Participation in International Law," 17 Yale J. Int'l L. 539 (1992), which is one of the 10 most cited articles ever published in the Yale Journal. His book, Humanitarian Occupation, reviews the U.N.'s experience in administering entire states or portions of states. In other academic work, Professor Fox has examined the state of occupation law, arguing against efforts to endow occupying powers with virtually unlimited authority to transform the states they control. In addition to his academic work, Professor Fox has served as counsel in several international cases.
Timestamps:
0:00 Introduction
1:40 A primer on Somalia and its history
6:40 International humanitarian intervention
9:50 Post-Cold War Era Opportunities
15:33 Preparing to go into Somalia
24:27 The pros and cons of intervention
23:04 U.S. intervention after the Vietnam War
24:43 The challenges of intervening in civil wars
33:47 Urban warfare
43:14 Legacies of the Battle of Mogadishu
52:06 UN debates over humanitarian intervention
54:55 Somalia after the Battle of MogadishuFurther Reading:
Bowden, Mark, Black Hawk Down: A Story of Modern War (1999)
Carroll, Jonathan, “Courage Under Fire: Reevaluating Black Hawk Down and the Battle of Mogadishu,” 29 (3) War in History 704 (July 2022)
Fox, Gregory H., Humanitarian Occupation (2008)
Hakimi, Monica, “Toward a Legal Theory on the Responsibility to Protect,” 39(2) Yale J. Int’l L. 247 (2014)
Lee, Thomas H., “The Law of War and the Responsibility to Protect Civilians: A Reinterpretation,” 55 Harv. Int’l L.J. 251 (2014)
Luttwak, Edward N., “Give War a Chance,” Foreign Affairs (July/August 1999)
Hathaway, Oona A. & Hartig, Luke, “Still at War: The United States in Somalia,” Just Security (Mar. 31, 2022)
Wheeler, Nicholas J., Saving Strangers: Humanitarian Intervention in International Society (2002)
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Episode 35: Minamata: The Victims and the World & Minamata (Guest: Darryl Flaherty)
Jonathan Hafetz
This episode looks at two films that examine the environmental disaster in Minamata, Japan: Noriaki Tsuchimoto’s documentary, Minamata: The Victims and the World (1971), and Andre Levitas’s Minamata (2020), a Hollywood feature film that tells the story through the famous American photographer, W. Eugene Smith. From 1932 to 1968, the Chisso Corporation, a local petrochemical and plastics maker, dumped approximately 27 tons of mercury into Minamata bay, poisoning fish and, ultimately, the people who ate them. Several thousand people died and many more suffered crippling injuries, with often severe mental and physical effects. The corporation’s environmental pollution sparked legal and political battles that would last decades and reverberate throughout Japan.
Guest: Darryl Flaherty
Darryl Flaherty is a historian of law and social change in early modern and modern Japan. He is an associate professor in the Department of History at the University of Delaware where he teaches courses on Japanese, Asian, and world history. Professor Flaherty has published work on the emergence of Japan's legal profession during the nineteenth century, the Meiji Restoration in world history, and the twentieth century history of the jury in Japan.
Timestamps:
0:00 Introduction
2:13 The Chisso Chemical Corporation
4:58 The fishing life in Minamata
7:30 Methylmercury poisoning
12:20 Movement politics and environmental protest in Japan
16:44 The debilitating Minamata disease
18:59 The Minamata pollution litigation
22:03 Denial and violence by the Chisso Corporation
24:08 Government complicity
29:26 Discrimination against the victims
30:51 Strategies and challenges in obtaining compensation
38:28 Noriaki Tsuchimoto, W. Eugene Smith, and the notoriety of Minamata
44:51 The importance of an apology
48:30 Environmental reform and its limits in Japan
52:14 A lens into the 2011 Fukushima disaster
54:39 The limited role of lawyers in the films
57:21 Minamata today
59:07 The decline of political activism in Japan
102:02 Take-aways and stories about storytellingFurther Reading:
Flaherty, Darryl, Public Law, Private Practice Politics, Profit, and the Legal Profession in Nineteenth-Century Japan (Harvard Univ. Asia Center, 2013)
George, Timothy S., Minamata: Pollution and the Struggle for Democracy in Postwar Japan (Harvard Univ. Press, 2002)
Smith, Eugene W. & Aileen M. Smith, Minamata: The Story of the Poisoning of a City, and of the People Who Chose to Carry the Burden of Courage (Holt, Rinehart, 1975)
Upham, Frank K., Law and Social Change in Postwar Japan (Harvard Univ. Press, 1989)
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Episode 36: Matewan (1987) (Guest: Fred B. Jacob)
Jonathan Hafetz
Matewan (written and directed by John Sayles) dramatizes the events of the Battle of Matewan, a coal miners’ strike in 1920 in a small town in the hills of West Virginia. In the film, Joe Kenehan (Chris Cooper, in his film debut), an ex-Wobbly organizer for the United Mine Workers (also known as the “Wobblies”), arrives in Matewan, to organize miners against the Stone Mountain Coal Company. Kenehan and his supporters must battle the company’s use of scabs and outright violence, resist the complicity of law enforcement in the company’s tactics, and overcome the racism and xenophobia that helps divide the labor movement. Sayles’s film provides a window into the legal and social issues confronting the labor movement in the early twentieth century and into the Great Coalfield War of that period. I’m joined by Fred B. Jacob, Solicitor of the National Labor Relations Board and labor law professor at George Washington University Law School. Fred’s views on this podcast are solely his own and not those of the National Labor Relations Board or the U.S. Government.
Guest: Fred B. Jacob
Fred B. Jacob is the Solicitor of the National Labor Relations Board (NLRB). As Solicitor, Mr. Jacob serves as the chief legal adviser and consultant to the entire Board on all questions of law regarding the Board’s general operations and on major questions of law and policy concerning the adjudication of NLRB cases in the Courts of Appeals and the U.S. Supreme Court. The Solicitor also acts as the Board’s legal representative and liaison to the General Counsel and other offices of the Board. From 1997 to 2014, Mr. Jacob worked as an attorney, supervisor, and Deputy Assistant General Counsel in the NLRB’s Appellate and Supreme Court Litigation Branch. Before joining management, he served as Grievance Chair of the NLRB Professional Association, the union representing Washington, DC-based NLRB attorneys. Mr. Jacob is Professorial Lecturer in Law at the George Washington University School of Law. Mr. Jacob has previously taught labor and employment law courses at Georgetown University Law Center and the College of William and Mary School of Law.
Timestamps:
0:00 Introduction
2:46 A miner’s life
7:44 The power of the mining companies
12:25 Law’s hostility to labor
19:01 Violence and the labor movement
25:33 Organizing the miners in Matewan
30:08 Racial and ethnic tensions within the labor movement
39:29 What was law and who was law
46:40 The Battle of Blair Mountain
51:54: The Great Coalfield War to the National Labor Relations Act
56:59 Barbara Kopple’s Harlan County, USA
1:01:59 The power of the strikeFurther Reading:
Green, James, The Devil Is Here in These Hills:West Virginia's Coal Miners and Their Battle for Freedom (2015)
Hood, Abby Lee, “What Made the Battle of Blair Mountain the Largest Labor Uprising in American History,” Smithsonian Magazine (Aug. 25, 2001)
Moore, Roger, “A Masterpiece that reminds us why there is a Labor Day,” Movie Nation (Sept. 2, 2024)
Sayles, John, Thinking in Pictures: The Making of the Movie Matewan (1987)
Zappia, Charles A., “Labor, Race, and Ethnicity in the West Virginia Mines: 'Matewan,'” 30(4) J. Am. Ethnic History 44 (Summer 2011)
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Episode 37: First They Killed My Father (2017) & The Gate (2014) (Guest: Melanie O’Brien)
Jonathan Hafetz
This episode looks at two films about the Cambodian genocide of the 1970s: First They Killed My Father (dir. Angelina Jolie), and The Gate (or Les Temps des Aveux) (dir. Régis Wargnier). First They Killed My Father is based on the memoir of Loung Ung, who was a five-year-old girl when the Khmer Rouge took control of Cambodia in 1975. Loung Ung was forced to flee Phnom Penh, Cambodia's capital, with her family. Loung Ung’s parents were killed, and Loung Ung was separated from her siblings; after surviving in a forced labor camp, Loung Ung was forced to become a child soldier. The Gate tells the story of acclaimed French anthropologist, Francois Bizot, who was imprisoned and tortured by the Khmer Rouge for three months in 1971 on suspicion of being a CIA spy, and who later became the French embassy’s translator and intermediary with the Khmer Rouge until he was forced to flee the country. The films, which are both based on personal memoirs, provide a harrowing account of Cambodia under the Khmer Rouge. I'm joined by Dr. Melanie O’Brien, Associate Professor of International Law at the University of Western Australia (UWA) Law School and President of the International Association of Genocide Scholars. Dr. O'Brien is a leading expert on genocide and international law, and is the author of acclaimed scholarly books and articles on the subject.
Guest: Melanie O Brien
Dr. Melanie O’Brien is Associate Professor of International Law & Deputy Head of School (Research) at the University of Western Australia Law School; and President of the International Association of Genocide Scholars (IAGS). Dr O'Brien was a 2023-24 Visiting Professor at the Center for Holocaust & Genocide Studies, University of Minnesota, USA; and is a Visiting Scholar at the Human Rights Center, Law School, University of Minnesota. The International Criminal Court has cited Dr. O’ Brien’s her work on forced marriage, and she has been an amica curia before the ICC. She has been an expert consultant for multiple UN bodies, including the UN Special Advisor on Genocide Prevention and the UN Special Rapporteur on Iran. Dr O'Brien is the recipient of the Aurora Mardiganian Commemorative Medal from the Armenian Genocide Museum-Institute for her work on the Armenian Genocide and Nagorno-Karabakh. Dr O'Brien is widely consulted by global media for her expertise on international criminal law. She has conducted fieldwork and research across six continents; and is part of the Ukraine Peace Settlement Project. Dr O'Brien is a member of the WA International Humanitarian Law Committee of the Australian Red Cross. She was a 2022 Research Fellow at the Sydney Jewish Museum & a 2023 Visiting Fellow at the Institute of Advanced Studies, University of Loughborough, UK. Dr O'Brien is the author of Criminalising Peacekeepers: Modernising National Approaches to Sexual Exploitation and Abuse (Palgrave, 2017) and From Discrimination to Death: Genocide Process through a Human Rights Lens (Routledge, 2023, Australian Legal Research Awards finalist).
Timestamps:
0:00 Introduction
3:42 Background on the Khmer Rouge
7:42 Khmer Rouge philosophy and tactics
11:50 Forced marriage
15:37 The role of propaganda
24:58 The use of child soldiers
27:48 Life after genocide
31:42 First They Killed My Father and the Cambodian genocide
38:08 Francois Bizot and Comrade Duch
40:10 The French embassy in Phnom Penh
43:52 The portrayal of Comrade Duch
46:06 The Extraordinary Chambers in the Courts of Cambodia
55:06 Why Cambodia was a genocide
1:00:16 The Khmer Rouge’s destruction of culture
1:07:21 Transitional justice in Cambodia
1:10:33 The role of memoirs after genocideFurther Reading:
Becker, Elizabeth, When the War Was Over: Cambodia and the Khmer Rouge Revolution (1988)
Bizot, Francois, The Gate: A Memoir (2004)
Killean, Rachel & Moffett, Luke, “What’s in a Name? ‘Reparations’ at the Extraordinary Chambers in the Courts of Cambodia,” 21(1) Melbourne J. Int'l Law 115 (2020)
O’Brien, Melanie, “Le Temps des Aveux/The Gate” (review), Law & Culture (2016)
O’Brien, Melanie, From Discrimination to Death: Genocide Process through a Human Rights Lens (Routledge Press 2023)
Sperfeldt, Christoph, “Collective Reparations at the Extraordinary Chambers in the Courts of Cambodia,” 12 (3), Int’l Criminal L. Rev 457 (2012)
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Episode 38: Mr. Untouchable (2007) (Guest: Robert B. Fiske, Jr.)
Jonathan Hafetz
Mr. Untouchable, a 2007 documentary directed by Marc Levin, describes the rise and fall of former New York City drug kingpin, Leroy (“Nicky”) Barnes. In the early 1970s, Barnes formed “The Council,” an organized crime syndicate that controlled a significant part of the heroin trade in Harlem. Inspired by the Italian-American mafia, Barnes became one of the most powerful and notorious figures in New York City. A flashy and flamboyant fixture on the free-wheeling social scene of the period, Barnes quickly drew the attention of law enforcement. After several unsuccessful state prosecution attempts, Barnes, along with multiple other associates, was indicted by federal prosecutors in New York in 1977. Barnes was convicted and sentenced to life imprisonment. Barnes, however, was released in 1998, in exchange for working as a government informant, and entered the Witness Protection Program, where he remained until his death in 2012.
Guest: Robert B. Fiske, Jr.
Robert B. Fiske, Jr., is Senior Counsel at Davis Polk in New York, where he previously served as litigation partner for many years. Bob Fiske is one of the most prominent and respected trial lawyers in America. He has been involved in some of the most notable cases of the last half-century, including as special prosecutor in the Whitewater controversy and the death of White House counsel Vince Foster, the Three Mile Island nuclear disaster, the antitrust suit between the USFL and. NFL, the most contentious America's Cup ever, and the financial swindler Bernie Madoff. Mr. Fiske also served as the U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of New York from 1976 to 1980, during which time he led the prosecution of Nicky Barnes.
Timestamps:
0:00 Introduction
3:18 Drug trafficking in Harlem in the 1970s
4:55 Who was Nicky Barnes?
6:27 Trying to bring Barnes to justice
7:57 “Mr. Untouchable” and a call from Attorney General Griffin Bell
13:08 A sequestered and anonymous jury
17:22 Navigating credibility issues with key government witnesses
29:25 An issue with a juror dubbed the “Marlboro Man”
33:46 The guilty verdict against Barnes
38:43 Public law affecting water allocation and management
36:25 The larger implications of the Barnes case
37:51 The depiction of Nicky Barnes on filmFurther Reading:
Barnes, Leroy & Folsom, Tom, Mr. Untouchable: The Rise, Fall, and Resurrection of Heroin’s Teflon Don (2007)
Ferretti, Fred, “Mr. Untouchable,” N.Y. Times (June 5, 1977)
Fiske, Robert B., Prosecutor Defender Counselor: The Memoirs of Robert B. Fiske, Jr. (2014)
Roberts, Sam, “Crime’s ‘Mr. Untouchable’ Emerges From Shadows,” N.Y. Times (Mar. 4, 2007)
Wertheim, Eric, Note, “Anonymous Juries,” 54 Fordham L. Rev. 981 (1986)
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Episode 39: The Goldman Case (2023) (Guest: Fred Davis)
Jonathan Hafetz
The Goldman Case (Le Procès Goldman) (2023), is a French courtroom drama based on the real-life 1976 trial of Pierre Goldman, a far-left Jewish militant who was accused of multiple armed robberies and four murders during a holdup of a pharmacy in Paris. The film, which was directed by Cedric Kahn from screenplay by Kahn and Nathalie Hertzberg, stars Arieh Worthalter as Goldman and Arthur Harari as his lead lawyer, Georges Kiejiman. The film is not only a gripping account of this celebrated trial, but also explores larger themes around individual and collective responsibility, the way courtrooms can become the battleground for contested narratives about the past, and the swirling forces of race, class, and religion in 1970s France.
Guest: Fred Davis
Fred Davis is a former federal prosecutor with extensive trial experience in the United States and France. Mr. Davis’s practice focuses on multi-jurisdictional criminal investigations, building on his deep knowledge of procedural, practical, and cultural differences in national legal systems. Mr. Davis also teaches and writes extensively on comparative and cross-border criminal matters. He is the author of American Criminal Justice: An Introduction (Cambridge University Press 2019), which provides an overview and evaluation of U.S. criminal procedures, noting important ways in which those procedures differ from those applied in many other parts of the world. He is also the author or co-author of several book chapters, including “Financial Crime in France” in Practical Law (2020), and “France” in The International Investigations Review (2020), as well as a chapter in the same book on “Managing the Challenges of Multijurisdictional Criminal Investigations.” Mr. Davis previously served as advisor to the Prosecutors at the International Criminal Court and the International Criminal Tribunal for Rwanda, and participated as counsel for victims in the trial of Chadian ex-dictator Hissène Habré in Dakar, Senegal, for international human rights violations. He appears frequently on national TV in France to address issues related to American and international criminal justice. Mr. Davis is a member of the American College of Trial Lawyers.
Timestamps:
0:00 Introduction
2:34 Background for the Pierre Goldman case
5:15 Goldman’s lawyers, Georges Kiejiman and Francis Chouraqui
7:48 Breaking down a French courtroom
9:21 The lawyer for the victims
10:20 Procedural differences between French and American trials
14:47 A window into 1970s France
17:33 The backdrop of the treatment of Jews in Vichy France
23:05 How the Left rallied to Goldman’s side
27:10 Tensions around race and policing in France
29:58 The role of the investigating magistrate in France
32:22 The verdict and aftermath
38:55 French courtroom dramas
40:42 Evolving discussion about France’s history during World War II
43:40 Studying comparative criminal justice through filmFurther Reading:
Goldman, Pierre, Dim Memories of a Polish Jew Born in France (1977)
Oltermann, Philip, “Tried for double murder and adored by the French left: the violent life and crimes of Pierre Goldman,” The Guardian (Sept. 16, 2024)
Paxton, Robert O., Vichy France: Old Guard and New Order, 1940-1944 (1972)
Marrus, Michael, R. & Paxton, Robert O., Vichy France and the Jews (1981)
Reid, Donald, “From Souvenirs obscurs to Lieu de mémorie,” French Politics, Culture & Society, vol. 26, no. 2 (Summer 2008)
Vincendeau, Ginette, “The Goldman Case: arresting courtroom drama holds its own outside a French context,” Sight and Sound (Sept. 20, 2024)
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Episode 40: Syriana (2005) (Guest: Peggy McGuinness)
Jonathan Hafetz
Syriana is a 2005 geopolitical thriller written and directed by Stephen Gaghan, based loosely on former CIA case officer Robert Baer’s memoir, See No Evil: The True Story of a Ground Soldier in the CIA's War on Terrorism. The film weaves together multiple storylines that involve a CIA agent, a U.S. energy analyst, a major transnational law firm, and an oil-rich Persian Gulf kingdom. It tackles complex themes of corruption, power, and terrorism from a distinctly post-9/11 vantage point. The film also suggests how law operates in transnational settings and how it seeks—but often fails—to tame the forces of ambition, greed, and power that drive the oil industry and America’s role in it.
Guest: Margaret (“Peggy”) McGuinness
Margaret (Peggy) McGuinness joined the St. John’s faculty in 2010. Professor McGuinness researches and teaches in the areas of international law and international human rights law. She has published widely on the subjects of international human rights law, international security and the resolution of armed conflict, and the role and influence of international law in the United States. Professor McGuinness’s current research examines U.S. diplomacy and its influence on international human rights governance. Her recent work includes, Human Rights Reporting as Human Rights Governance, published in Columbia Journal on Transnational Law. She is also the co-editor (with David Stewart, Georgetown Law) of the forthcoming Edward Elgar Research Handbook on Law and Diplomacy (forthcoming 2021). Professor McGuinness serves on the Council on International Affairs of the New York City Bar and the Executive Committee of the International Section of the New York State Bar Association, where she is also co-chair of the Public International Law Committee. Professor McGuinness previously worked as a litigator for Paul, Weiss, Rifkind, Wharton & Garrison LLP. Her career in the law follows an early career as a Foreign Service Officer with the State Department, which included service in Germany, Pakistan and Canada, and as a Special Assistant to Secretary of State Warren Christopher.
Timestamps:
0:00 Introduction
3:00 The context and setting
5:24 The film’s multiple storylines
8:28 Former CIA agent Robert Baer
19:22 Capital markets and energy derivatives
25:26 Big oil in the early 2000s and today
28:28 Big law and the Jeffrey Wright character
33:43 DOJ’s investigation
37:14 The Foreign Corrupt Practices Act
42:40 The illusion of due diligence
47:40 Radicalization
53:06 Gulf monarchs
55:10 Targeted assassination
1:01:14 The next movie: big tech and AI
1:01:52 The outcomeFurther Reading:
Alyson, Brusie et al., “Foreign Corrupt Practices Act,” 61 Am. Crim. L. Rev. 713 (2024)
Baer, Robert, See No Evil: The True Story of a Ground Soldier in the CIA's War on Terrorism (Crown, 2003)
Kahrl, William L., “The Politics of the California Water: Owens Valley and the Los Angeles Aqueduct, 1900 – 1927,” Hastings West-Northwest J. Envt’l L. & Policy, vol. 6, nos. 1 & 2 (2000)
Lewis, R. James & Awan, Akil N. eds. Radicalization: A Global and Comparative Perspective (Oxford Univ. Press, 2024)
Stiglitz, Jospeh E., Globalization and Its Discontents (W. W. Norton & Co. 2002)
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Episode 41: Ali (2001) (Guest: Dave Zirin)
Jonathan Hafetz
Muhammad Ali is widely recognized as one of the greatest athletes of all-time and one of the most important figures of the 20th century. In addition to his long and celebrated career as a boxer and three-time heavyweight champion of the world, Ali changed the conversation about race, religion, and politics in America. Ali’s refusal to be inducted into the U.S. military during the Vietnam War on religious grounds—a profound act of resistance that resulted not only in Ali’s three-plus-year exile from professional boxing, but also a criminal conviction and five year-prison sentence that Ali almost had to serve until it was reversed by the U.S. Supreme Court—represented a pivotal moment of the 1960s. Ali has been the subject of numerous books and documentary films, including the Oscar-winning When We Were Kings (1996) and The Trials of Muhammad Ali (2013). He is also the subject of the 2001 Hollywood biopic, Ali (co-written and directed by Michael Mann and starring Will Smith as Ali), which focuses on the ten-year period from Ali’s capture of the heavyweight crown from Sonny Liston in 1964 to Ali’s fight against George Foreman in Zaire in 1974 (the famed “Rumble in the Jungle”). Once a sharply polarizing figure, Ali became one of the most celebrated and eulogized individuals in America, whose rich, if not incomparable, legacy reverberates around the world today.
Guest: Dave Zirin
Dave Zirin is the sports editor at The Nation magazine. He also hosts Edge of Sports Television on The Real News Network and the Edge of Sports podcast. Dave is the author of eleven books, including Jim Brown: Last Man Standing and two books about Mohammed Ali: Muhammad Ali Handbook, which surveys Ali’s career, and What's My Name, Fool? Sports and Resistance in the United States, which looks at Ali and sports and resistance in the United States. Dave has been called “the best sportswriter in the United States,” by the New York Times icon Robert Lipsyte. He has spent his career probing the intersection of sports, politics, and society.
Timestamps:
0:00 Introduction
2:22 Formative experiences
5:00 From Cassius Clay to Muhammad Ali
10:26 Opposition to the Vietnam draft
13:16 Ali’s loss of his prime years
15:42 The broader significance of Ali’s opposition to induction
18:08 Ali’s legal challenges and the U.S. Supreme Court
22:48: The Fight of the Century
24:06 From a symbol of resistance to reconciliation
27:50 Becoming a global icon: The Rumble in the Jungle
35:30 Ali and Howard Cosell
36:57 Ali and Malcolm X
41:08 Some problems of the Ali biopic
44:12 Ali’s post-boxing career
47:53 Sports and resistance: Ali's legacyFurther Reading:
Hauser, Thomas, Muhammad Ali: His Life and Times (1991)
Kindred, Dave, Sound and Fury: Two Powerful Lives, One Fateful Friendship (2006)
Lederman, Marty, “The story of Cassius Clay v. United States,” SCOTUSBlog (June 8, 2016)
Lipsyte, Robert, Free to Be Muhammad Ali (1978)
Marqusee, Mike, Redemption Song: Muhammad Ali and the Spirit of the Sixties (2017)
Remnick, David, King of the World: Muhammad Ali and the Rise of an American Hero (1998)
Zirin, Dave, Muhammad Ali Handbook (2007)
Zirin, Dave, The Kaepernick Effect: Taking a Knee, Changing the World (2022)
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Episode 42: On the Waterfront (1954) (Guest: Warren Scharf)
Jonathan Hafetz
This episode looks at On the Waterfront, the celebrated 1954 American film directed by Elia Kazan and written by Budd Schulberg. The film stars Marlon Brando as the ex-prize fighter turned New Jersey longshoreman Terry Malloy. Malloy struggles to stand up to mob-affiliated union boss Johnny Friendly (Lee J. Cobb) after Malloy is lured into setting up a fellow dockworker whom Friendly has murdered to prevent him from testifying before the Waterfront Crime Commission about violence and corruption at the docks. The pressure on Malloy rises as he falls in love with Edie Doyle (Eva Marie Saint), the murdered dockworker’s sister, and as Edie, along with local priest Father Pete Barry (Karl Malden), urge Malloy to do the right thing. Malloy ultimately testifies against Friendly and challenges Friendly’s leadership at great personal risk. While the film is about a courageous fight against a corrupt power structure and injustice, it is also influenced by director Elia Kazan’s own controversial decision to act as an informant against fellow directors, writers, and actors during the McCarthy-era Red Scare.
Guest: Warren Scharf
Warren Scharf has been the Executive Director of Lenox Hill Neighborhood House since 2003. Warren served previously as the Attorney-in-Charge of The Brooklyn Neighborhood Office of The Legal Aid Society, the Attorney-in-Charge of The Brooklyn Office for the Aging of The Legal Aid Society and the Vice President of The Partnership for the Homeless. He is the recipient of the Legal Services Award from the Association of the Bar of the City of New York and is a graduate of Columbia College and Columbia Law School.
Timestamps:
0:00 Introduction
2:20 Corruption on the docks
9:18 Boxing: I could have been a contender
17:07 The priest on the waterfront
23:44 Testifying before waterfront crime commission
32:10 Informants
34:48 Elia Kazan and the House Un-American Activities Committee
47:04 The film’s relevance today
48:39 Some people who stood up to HUAC
50:40 Separating the art and the artistFurther Reading:
Demeri, Michelle J., “The ‘Watchdog’ Agency: Fighting Organized Crime on the Waterfront in New York and New Jersey,” 38 New Eng. J. on Crim. & Civ. Confinement 257 (2012)
Murphy, Sean, “An Underworld Syndicate': Malcolm Johnson's ' On the Waterfront' Articles,” The Pulitzer Prizes Archive (1948)
Navasky, Victor S., Naming Names (Viking Press 1980)
Rebello, Stephen, A City Full of Hawks: On the Waterfront Seventy Years Later—Still the Great American Contender (Rowman & Littlefield 2024)
Pjevach, Julia, Note, “A Comparative Look at the Response to Organized Crime in the Ports of New York-New Jersey and Vancouver,” 6 Cardozo Int'l & Comp. L. Rev. 283 (2022)
Smith, Wendy, “The Director Who Named Names,” The American Scholar (Dec. 10, 2014)
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Episode 43: I Just Didn’t Do It (2007) (Guest: Naoko Akimoto)
Jonathan Hafetz
This episode examines I Just Didn’t Do It, a 2007 Japanese film written and directed by Masayuki Suo. In the film, 26-year-old Teppei Kaneko (played by Ryo Kase) is traveling to a job interview on a packed Tokyo commuter train when a 15-year-old school girl, who was standing in front of him on the train and whom Kaneko hardly noticed, wrongly accuses him of groping (chikan). Kaneko is arrested. He is advised by a lawyer to plead guilty and pay a small fine, after which he will be freed. But Kaneko maintains his innocence and decides to fight the case, even though he is told that nearly everyone who takes their case to trial in Japan is convicted. The film then documents Kaneko’s nightmare odyssey through the Japanese criminal justice system, where he is detained for months and ultimately convicted despite significant problems with the prosecution's case. I Just Didn’t Do It provides important insights into the Japanese criminal justice system and a critique of how it operates, including its treatment of the presumption of innocence.
Guest: Naoko Akimoto
Naoko Akimoto is Associate Professor in Faculty of Law and Politics, at Rikkyo University, in Tokyo, Japan. Before joining the faculty of Rikkyo University, she was previously Associate Professor at National Yang Ming Chiao Tung University, School of Law, in Taiwan and a Visiting Scholar at Washington University in Saint Louis. Professor Akimoto earned her Ph.D from the University of Tokyo Graduate Schools for Law and Politics, Tokyo, Japan, where she concentrated on Anglo-American law. One area of Professor Akimoto’s teaching and research is on juries, and when I was previously a visiting scholar at Rikkyo University.
Timestamps:
0:00 Introduction
2:52 Background on the Japanese criminal justice system
5:19 The crime of groping (chikan) in Japan
8:57 The pressure to plead guilty
17:12 The interrogation of suspects
18:46 Criminal defense lawyers in Japan
22:31 Why defendants tend to testify at trial
23:52 The prosecution’s disclosure obligations
28:30 How bail operates in Japan
31:04 The rotation of judges in Japan
34:06 The incentives in favor of conviction
38:44 Finding the defendant guilty despite reasonable doubt
43:20 The lay judge (saiban) system in Japan
46:54 A critique of Japan's treatment of the presumption of innocenceFurther Reading:
Aronson, Bruce E. & Johnson, David T., “Comparative Reflections on the Carlos Ghosn Case and Japanese Criminal Justice,” 18 Asia-Pacific Journal 24(2) (Dec. 15, 2020)
Doi, Kanae, “Inquiry Needed into Japan’s Flawed Criminal Justice System,” Human Rights Watch (Nov. 4, 2024)
Japan Federation of Bar Associations, “The Japanese Judicial System”
Keiichi, Muraoka & Toshikuni, Murai, “Citizens on the Bench: Assessing Japan’s Lay Judge System,” Nippon.com (June 26, 2019)
Meehan, Susan, “I Just Didn’t Do It,” The Japan Society
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Episode 44: Dark Waters (2019) (Guest: Mark Templeton)
Jonathan Hafetz
Dark Waters (2019), directed by Todd Haynes, tells the real-life story of how a lawyer, Rob Bilott (Mark Ruffalo), waged a twenty-year battle to hold the DuPont corporation accountable for contaminating a local water supply with carcinogenic chemicals that poisoned tens of thousands of people. While Bilott is ultimately able to achieve some degree of compensation and justice for the victims, the film shows the challenges of litigating against a powerful company bent on denying responsibility and covering up its misconduct.
Guest: Mark Templeton
Mark Templeton is Clinical Professor of Law and Director of the Abrams Environmental Law Clinic at the University of Chicago Law School, and Research Affiliate of the Energy Policy Institute at Chicago (EPIC). Previously, Professor Templeton was a Trustee and Executive Director of the Office of Independent Trustees for the $20 billion Deepwater Horizon Oil Spill Trust. He also served as the cabinet-level Director of the Missouri Department of Natural Resources, leading the state’s efforts in energy, environmental protection, state parks, and water resources. Professor Templeton’s prior experience additionally includes serving as Associate Dean and COO at Yale Law School, developing environmental and sustainability strategies at McKinsey & Company, and serving as Special Assistant and Senior Adviser to the US Assistant Secretary of State for Democracy, Human Rights and Labor and an adviser to the US Delegation to the UN Commission on Human Rights.
Timestamps:
0:00 Introduction
2:35 The origins: a small case for a family friend back home
6:24 Teflon and the “miracle” chemical
10:24 How attorney Rob Bilott uncovers the pollution
13:49 Getting the Taft firm on board
21:50 Addressing the legal challenges in the case
24:30 Medical monitoring and causation in toxic tort cases
28:36 Divisions in the community, financial pressures, and client management
30:30 DuPont’s clout
35:14 Bellwether trials: trying the cases in court
39:44 What the litigation achieved and the continued challenges
46:27 The risks of “forever chemicals”
49:50 Developments since the film was released
55:43 Can the legal system deliver justice?
1:01:53 Some further developmentsFurther Reading:
Bilott, Robert, Exposure: Poisoned Water, Corporate Greed, and One Lawyer's Twenty-Year Battle against DuPont (Atria Books 2019)
Carucci, Rob, “Leadership Lessons from Rob Bilott’s 20 Year Battle for Justice Against DuPont,” Forbes (July 12, 2021)
Nevitt, Mark P. & Percival, Robert V., “Can Environmental Law Solve the ‘Forever Chemical’ Problem,” 57 Wake Forest L. Rev. 239 (2022)
Rich, Nathaniel, “The Lawyer Who Became DuPont’s Worst Nightmare,” N.Y. Times Magazine (Jan. 6, 2016)
Small, Sarah Chen, Note, “Toxic Film: Analyzing the Impact of Films Depicting Major Contamination Events on the Regulation of Toxic Chemicals,” 35 Georgetown Env. L. Rev. 561 (2023)
Tabuchi, Hiroko, “Trump Administration to Uphold Some PFAS Limits but Eliminate Others,” N.Y. Times (May 14, 2025)
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Episode 45: The Conformist (1970) (Guest: Aziz Huq)
Jonathan Hafetz
This episode examines The Conformist, Bernardo Bertolucci’s 1970 political drama set in 1930s Italy. The film centers on Marcello Clerici (Jean-Louis Trintignant), a mid-level Fascist functionary who is ordered to assassinate his former professor, an anti-fascist dissident living in Paris. The film, which includes many flashbacks to Clerici’s early life and decision to join the secret police, provides powerful and chilling insights into the psychology of conformism and fascism The film, widely considered one of the greatest ever made, not only features outstanding performances but also superb production design (Fernando Scarfiotti) and cinematography (Vittorio Storaro) that helps capture Italy under Mussolini. The film is as timely today as it was when it was released, as the world witnesses a resurgence of authoritarianism in the United States and Europe.
Guest: Aziz Huq
Aziz Huq is the Frank and Bernice J. Greenberg Professor of Law, at the University of Chicago Law School. A leading scholar of US and comparative constitutional law., Aziz’s recent work concerns democratic backsliding and the regulation of AI. His award-winning scholarship is published in several books and in leading law, social science, and political science journals. He also writes for Politico, the Washington Post, the New York Times, and many other non-specialist publications. Aziz has an active pro bono practice, and is on the board of the American Constitution Society, the Seminary Coop, the New Press, and the ACLU of Illinois. Aziz previously served as a clerk for Judge Robert D. Sack of the US Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit and then for the late Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg of the Supreme Court of the United States. Before joining the Chicago Law School faculty, Aziz also was counsel and then director of the Brennan Center’s Liberty and National Security Project, where I had the honor of working together with him litigating cases with him in both the US Courts of Appeals and the Supreme Court.
Timestamps:
0:00 Introduction
3:45 Fascist Italy under Mussolini
7:58 Why Clerici joins the fascists
12:39 Repression of sexual orientation and the desire to belong
14:10 Why people are vulnerable to fascism
18:56 Manganiello and the fascist enforcer
23:43 Perspectives on normalcy and the scenes in Paris
31:56 How the film speaks to the Trump era
36:40 Architecture in Mussolini’s Italy
39:08 The murder of Quadri and Anna
44:39 After Mussolini falls
50:30 The lack of consequences for going along with fascism
56:04 The Holocaust in Mussolini’s ItalyFurther Reading:
Bosworth, R.J.B., Mussolini’s Italy: Life under the Fascist Dictatorship, 1915-1945 (2006)
Elbiri, Bilge, “It’s Time to See ‘The Conformist’ Again,” Vulture (Jan. 14, 2023)
Huq, Aziz, "America Is Watching the Rise of a Dual State," The Atlantic (Mar. 23. 2025)
Kael, Pauline, “‘The Conformist’: The Poetry of Images,” New Yorker (Mar. 27, 1971)
Moravia, Alberto, The Conformist (1951)
Musil, Robert, The Man Without Qualities (1930-43)
Walton, John, The Legendary Detective: The Private Eye in Fact and Fiction (U. Chicago Press (2015)
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Episode 46: The Return of Martin Guerre (1982) (Guest: Joseph Dellapenna)
Jonathan Hafetz
The Return of Martin Guerre is a 1982 French historical drama directed by Daniel Vigne and staring Gerard Depardieu. The film describes the historical case of Martin Guerre who leaves his young wife Bertrande (Nathalie Baye) in the small French village of Artigat to fight in a war and travel. Around eight years later, the false Martin (played by Depardieu) returns to the village to resume his life. The false Martin (whose real name is Arnaud du Tilh) persuades the people in the village that he is in fact Martin Guerre. This includes Bertrande, who goes on to have two children with the false Martin and who seems happy to finally have a husband who loves her, as opposed to the real Martin, with whom she was trapped in an arranged and loveless marriage. But when the imposter Martin presses his uncle for the money he is owed for his land, the uncle denounces him as a fraud. An investigation and trial follow to determine if the Depardieu character is the real Martin. The imposter Martin is on the verge of winning until the real Martin shows up at the last minute, exposing the imposter Martin, who then confesses. The imposter (i.e., Arnaud) is then led to the gallows and hanged, and the real Martin resumes his place in the village.
Guest: Joseph Dellapenna
Joseph Dellapenna is a visiting professor at Peking University School of Transnational Law. He retired as a professor of law at Villanova School of Law, where he taught for forty years. Professor Dellapenna’s research and teaching interests include international and comparative law. He has also written about using films to teach comparative law.
Timestamps:
0:00 Introduction
2:56 Teaching comparative law through film
4:18 A quick primer on French legal history
7:33 Jean de Coras and the Parliament of Toulouse
11:28 How the false Martin Guerre becomes Martin Guerre
16:12 The allegations against Martin and Bertrande
21:01 The trial of Martin Guerre
25:16 How the false Martin almost pulls it off
27:26 The execution
31:29 Religious conflict in 16th century Europe
34:59 The difficulty of proving identity at the timeFurther Reading:
Bienen, Leigh Buchanan, Book Review, “The Law as Storyteller,” 98 Harv. L. Rev. 494 (1984)
Davis, Natalie Zemon, The Return of Martin Guerre (1983)
Dellapenna, Joseph, “Peasants, Tanners, and Psychiatrists: Using Films to Teach Comparative Law,” 36 (1) Int’l J. Legal Information 156 (2008)
Finlay, Robert, “The Refashioning of Martin Guerre,” 93(3) Am. Hist. Rev. 553 (1988)
Hall, Phyllis A., “Teaching Analytical Thinking through the AHR Forum and ‘The Return of Martin Guerre’” Perspectives on History (Jan. 1, 1990)
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Episode 47: No Other Land (2024) (Guests: Omer Bartov & Lisa Hajjar)
Jonathan Hafetz
No Other Land (2024) is the Oscar-winning documentary that shows the brutal destruction of a Palestinian community in the occupied West Bank. Recorded between 2019 to 2023, the film tells the story of Basel Adra, a young Palestinian activist, who has been protesting the Israeli army’s destruction of homes and eviction of villagers. Adra is assisted by Yuval Abraham, a Jewish Israeli journalist. (They are also two of the film’s four directors). To Adra and other Palestinians, the Israeli army is destroying their homeland. The Israeli army, however, maintains that the inhabitants are on land that the military needs for live-fire military training and that the evictions have been duly authorized by Israeli courts. The situation turns violent—Adra’s cousin is shot by Israeli soldiers in the days after the Oct 7 attacks—and Adra himself is endangered by his efforts to record the evictions and protests. The film provides a penetrating look not only at a Palestinian community in the West Bank but also at the plight of those being forced off their land--with literally nowhere else to go. [Editor's Note: Since the recording of this episode, Odeh Hathalin, a Palestinian activist and contributor to the film, was shot and killed in a village in Masafer Yatta by an Israeli settler.]
Guest: Omer Bartov
Omer Bartov is the Dean’s Professor of Holocaust and Genocide Studies at Brown University. Born in Israel and educated at Tel Aviv University and St. Antony's College, Oxford, Professor Bartov's early research concerned the Nazi indoctrination of the Wehrmacht and the crimes it committed in World War II, which he analyzed in his books, The Eastern Front, 1941-1945 (1985), and Hitler's Army (1991). Professor Bartov has also written about the links between total war and genocide, including in Murder in Our Midst (1996), Mirrors of Destruction (2000), and Germany's War and the Holocaust (2003). Professor Bartov’s more recent work has focused on interethnic relations in the borderlands of Eastern Europe, such as in Erased: Vanishing Traces of Jewish Galicia in Present-Day Ukraine (2007) and Anatomy of a Genocide: The Life and Death of a Town Called Buczacz (2018). Professor Bartov’s most recent book is Genocide, the Holocaust and Israel-Palestine: First-Person History in Times of Crisis (2023). He is at work on two other books, Israel: What Went Wong? and The Broken Promise: A Personal Political History of Israel and Palestine.
Guest: Lisa Hajjar
Lisa Hajjar is professor and chair of Sociology at the University of California -- Santa Barbara. Her research focuses on law and conflict, including war crimes and other gross violations of international law, military occupations and courts, and legal activism in pursuit of justice. Professor Hajjar is the author of numerous publications, including Courting Conflict: The Israeli Military Court System in the West Bank and Gaza (Univ. Cal. Press, 2005), “International Law and Fifty Years of Occupation” in Aaron Hahn Tapper and Mira Sucharov, eds., Social Justice in Israel/Palestine: Foundational and Contemporary Debates (Univ. Toronto Press, 2019); and “Law against Order: Human Rights Organizations and the Palestinian Authority,” 56 University of Miami Law Review 59 (2002). Her most recent book is The War in Court: Inside the Long Fight against Torture, published by University of California Press in 2022. In her work, Professor Hajjar often compares Israel and U.S. violations of international law and the forms of legal reasoning government lawyers concoct to “legalize” illegal policies and practices.
Timestamps:
0:00 Introduction
3:42 Masafar Yatta and the Occupied West Bank
7:43 The legal apparatus of illegal occupation
13:14 The “Gazafication” of the West Bank
20:08 The meaning of “No Other Land”
23:21 Israel and the international community
31:24 The crackdown on free speech in the U.S. and in Israel
34:41 A complex story of an Israeli-Palestinian friendship
41:18 The power of images
43:07 Growing Israeli indifference to Gaza and the West Bank
48:30 The film’s reception in Israel
49:53 Law-based criticism of Israel and antisemitismFurther Reading:
Bartov, Omer, “I’m a Genocide Scholar. I Know It When I See It,” New York Times (July 15, 2025)
Beinart, Peter, Being Jewish after the Destruction of Gaza: A Reckoning (2025)
Caplan, Neil, The Israel-Palestine Conflict: Contested Histories (2010)
Hajjar, Lisa, “International Humanitarian Law and ‘Wars on Terror’: A Comparative Analysis of Israeli and American Doctrines and Policies,” 36 Journal of Palestine Studies 36 (Autumn 2006)
Kaufman, Anthony, "No Other Distribution: How Film Industry Economics and Politics Are Suppressing Docs Sympathetic to Palestine and Critical of Israel," Int’l Documentary Ass’n (Jan 15, 2025)
Khalidi, Rashid, The Hundred Years’ War on Palestine: A History of Settler Colonialism and Resistance, 1917-2017 (2020)
Lukenville, Mackenzie, “The Only Path Forward: ‘No Other Land,’” Int’l Documentary Ass’n (Dec. 5, 2024)
Sfard, Michael, Occupation from Within: A Journey to the Roots of the Constitutional Coup (2025)
